Christina Korsak, SEO Manager at Panda and Video Channel Specialist
In Career Spotlight, we profile women, non-binary people, and people of marginalized genders who work professionally in the gaming and esports industries.
This week we share an interview with Christina Korsak, SEO Manager at Panda, who has built a long, multifaceted career in the gaming industry, running Youtube channels for many high-profile competitors and companies, including Team Liquid’s Hungrybox. Christina spoke with us about her career, advice she has for those who want to forge a professional path in the gaming industry, the future of work for LGBT people in gaming, and so much more.
Christina Korsak, photo courtesy of the subject
Could you introduce yourself and tell us how you got started working in the gaming world?
My name is Christina Korsak, otherwise known as Chia in the gaming community. When I started in gaming, I was a huge fan of the Super Smash Bros series. I enjoyed the game, I played it, I was initially more of a competitor, but I got really into organization and staff roles very quickly. So even as early as 14 years ago at this point, I started hosting tournaments as well. Coming from a competitive scene that is more grassroots, that's not led by your large game publishers and such, we all had to do everything ourselves. So when events were happening --and these were in-person LANs, not online events – I was the kind of person who was renting out venues, gathering people into the space, everything like that.
In addition, one of the largest things I would do when I would host events or work with other people hosting events is work on their media presence online. This was in the earliest days of YouTube before Twitch even existed. I would broadcast these events online for people to watch from home and that would then serve as advertising for people to come out to events themselves.
It just kept growing larger and larger. While I had my own company and these different YouTube channels and Twitch channels broadcasting for these events, eventually I got to the point where the Smash community was getting so large and so mainstream (in a good way) that we were getting a lot of attention from larger organizations such as Team Liquid and Cloud9.
I actually started a professional esports team within Smash of some of the largest players in the world about eight years ago before they were picked up by larger teams. As they graduated onto these larger teams like Team Liquid -- which by all means is great and I love to see them thrive and continue on -- it kind of made me question what's next in it for me then? And how can I take my skills and specialties through content creation and management to continue to help them?
One of the best examples of what I started doing at that moment is what I built with Hungrybox. Hungrybox is a competitive player in Super Smash Bros. Melee and content creator in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. He's the best player in the world bar none. He's on Team Liquid and he's somebody with multiple hundreds of thousands of Twitter followers. His YouTube channel now has three hundred thousand plus subscribers. And people think like, “oh, he's making this amazing content. He does so much cool work.” Sure he’s the personality behind it and absolutely stellar at that, but did you know that I run that channel? It's almost kind of like being a ghostwriter in a weird way.
Because we had that working relationship for so long in the competitive space, a few years ago when I was just thinking of different ways we can work together, I was like, “hey, your Twitch is huge. Where's your YouTube presence? Let's partner up!” — that kind of thing. I worked on the entire management of things. First I started off with editing videos, doing the full SEO which is your titles, your thumbnails — everything like that, content planning, and releasing them. I did that for a bit by myself, like six months or so. And it got big enough to where we saw that he clearly had this audience that we needed to tap. Then I set up the revenue stream that he was able to start making thousands of dollars a month off of instantly.
Then it got large enough I could create my own business. So then when I didn't have enough time on my plate to do all the video editing myself, I started hiring my own video editors, all as part of his brand.
I quickly learned that I'm able to take esports personalities and expand them to so much more. The people I’m working with are able to live off of this kind of work.
With this model I’ve built, I am able to look out for women and non-binary people and all sorts of LGBT individuals out there, and we can be the driving force behind these channels. These staff members could be the real reason why these players and content creators are succeeding completely in their realms.
That’s so fascinating. To back up a little bit, were you interested in gaming in general before you kind of decided to pursue it professionally? Were there any role models that you looked to when you began creating all these opportunities for yourself in the gaming industry?
I've always been into video games for as long as I can remember. In elementary school, in the play yard, whenever kids were playing any kind of make-believe game they could think of, my friends and I were all saying we'll be our favorite video game characters. For as long as I can remember, back to the days of the Sega Genesis and like the mid-90s, I was there playing video games.
I was always a very serious, by-the-rules kind of person with it, telling other kids "no, you're playing that game wrong. You got to do it like this to be the best at it."
And as soon as esports became a thing in general in our community, it was natural that I fell into that right from the get-go. And in terms of looking for these opportunities, I definitely am more of a go-getter.
I don't really have any kind of role models in that. It’s a mixture of one, it's very new territory because esports and competitive gaming and gaming in general is all so new. And also, being in the generation that I'm in, where I was born in 1988. So basically I'm at that part where I get to remember where we didn't have technology but completely grew up with it. So it was such an untapped and undiscovered field for so many people born within a span of five years or so, that we kind of had to create the opportunities ourselves.
I think it also just speaks to my personality. I'm always looking for the best way to do the next cool thing and help others along with that. I do a lot of things for my friends and my family rather than just for myself, and that's how I have fun with it personally.
I know so many people are sort of like, “oh, you can make money off YouTube. I can't wait to start my own channel.” Where to me, why would you take on a job that might give you money in two years? Instead, I'm going to go find the popular person that already has the following and I'll make their YouTube channel.
I find people who don't have the hours in each day, the time investment, or the knowledge to be able to make their own channel. When I came into it, I was a specialist in marketing analytics, going from a more technical programming background to marketing, and I was able to slowly move all my focus more and more back towards video games.
I started working in programming, and then I worked for a web server company, but then I transferred from support into marketing for that company, thinking of the best way to sell the product. But then realized, I could just sell the content, which is what I do in my spare time. And then that just worked with taking that specialty and actually applying it to not just the industry I love, but to my friends and colleagues who I love as well. I'm able to provide more for them, they have fulfillment from it, and I feel fulfillment from helping them.
I think that it's especially cool that as we have this generation coming up of people who have really forged an entirely new set of jobs within gaming and within tech. Throughout your career, you seem to have taken something that you already know how to do and apply it to a field where it needs doing, which is very inspiring. I want to ask about technical skills. What are the technical skills you use the most and how did you build those?
I like to think of myself as a jack of all trades because I have so many different passions and things that excite me. I always want to learn the next new thing, or challenge myself in a different field. When I started combining all the different skill sets I’ve learned over time, that’s what brought me into the managerial roles, because I understood every different part of a team by the time I was leading them.
When I got started in content management and organization, a lot of that started off with just basic video editing. And then after that came image editing for thumbnails, marketing knowledge, human-computer interaction; for example: when people are scrolling on a YouTube page, learning what draws their eyes to certain things, what goes through their minds as they want to click something, how to make people subscribe to a channel.
Getting into the mind of the content consumer is a skill set that comes from experience. But it also can come from being a competitor as well. There are a lot of people who try to become the next big competitor in esports, and whether they make it or not, that's awesome because they can take that knowledge of the industry and think of how to help out the other competitors when they transition into another role within the gaming world. So really, my important lesson when it comes to skills is to never just kind of put yourself into one little category, but find all the different types of knowledge you have within your community, within your community, within your passions, and find a way to combine those together.
But technical skills-wise, I say it mostly comes down to video editing, image editing, marketing, research, and analytics.
As a manager, what do you think makes a good team leader? And maybe there are some things you've learned along the way that you would like to share. And then on the flip side of that, when you are bringing people onto your team, what are some qualities that you're looking for?
I think one of the most important things any team leader can have is empathy. When you can really bring yourself down to the employee level and really connect one-on-one with each of your employees –- not to muddy or mess up the idea of friendship versus managerial kind of relationships -- but being able to understand people's issues. So, for instance, if an employee is underachieving something, it's not just, “hey, do this better.” It's “let's figure out why it isn't working,” or “how can I put myself in your shoes to figure out how to make processes better,” and how to utilize their strengths the best.
Also, if your employees are able to trust you, they want to do their best work for you as a manager. So a lot of people that I work with, coincidentally or not, possibly more than coincidentally just because of who I am, are LGBT individuals. And it's interesting getting to see people that have worked for me be able to come out in the community and I'm there cheering them on, or having them come to me with concerns like, “hey, I'm having issues with this person and how they receive my work. Do you think there’s anything else in play there? Am I being targeted wrong?” They can come to me with issues sometimes that are still professional, but I'm able to understand because I connect with them on these levels.
I can't tell you how many times I've had an employee work for me in one field, for example, as a video editor, but I'll hear them say something like, “oh, I also do photography in my spare time.” So I tell them, “oh, show me your photography. I want to see this. I want to understand you more and also get to cheer you on.” And it builds a really strong relationship. When you have that relationship, they want to work better for you and it builds such a better employee in the end.
And then from the other end of what you're looking for, when you bring people to your team?
That question is a lot harder to kind of put into succinct words.
That is kind of too general, right? Because it reduces people to what you're looking for a role and a specific task that needs accomplishing?
A lot of it in a way is kind of an unsaid quality. I feel that I kind of just know the right people when I see them.
But a lot of it comes down to work ethic and if they enjoy what they're working on.
If I'm just looking for somebody to fulfill a job, I'm not the kind of person who would just kind of post it on Indeed or whatever. Most of my employees I've found have literally just been from posts on my own personal Twitter, because if they already follow me and they're involved in this kind of industry, I trust that for the work I'm hiring for, they're going to find a passion in it as well.
I don't want people to just walk into an office and just do whatever because “it's a job, whatever.” I want people who see the work, they put it on their portfolio, and they're proud of it. So if it's working in a certain kind of game community, it might be somebody I've played games with before. So if I’m hiring them as a Smash video editor, have I played Smash with them before? Have I seen them play Smash with other people? Do their eyes light up when they fulfill this kind of content stuff? I think that shows so much, that and a willingness to learn, because so much of anything can be taught to people. And when you see that capability to learn and desire to learn, that can create such a better employee in the end than anybody else.
That totally resonates. So I want to pivot a little bit to just generally thinking about the representation of women and of LGBTQ folks in the gaming industry. What is the environment now for women and LGBTQ folks in the gaming industry? And what do you see and hope for as we move into the future for women and LGBTQ folks working in the gaming industry?
It wouldn't be appropriate to sugarcoat it and say that everything's great right now because it is definitely not without lots of issues. But things are so much better now than they were three, five, ten years ago or so, which is great because we're definitely moving in that right direction.
I think a lot of that goes hand in hand with politics, seeing that Biden won the presidential race, and how as a country we're doing a bit better collectively at putting down hate. Even if things don't work great now, there is at least enough of a voice within the scene, within all different esports and gaming scenes, that there is enough power for people in minority groups and people from underrepresented backgrounds that if they can speak out, there will be people to listen.
Especially with how strong social media is now, no matter where you live -- let's say you do live in an area that you are not represented correctly, and you're put down for who you are -- you can at least find the people online who can help keep you feel safe.
And especially in a world during a pandemic where we're so confined to our own houses, really, you don't need to go look down the street or a city over to find the people that work with you the most. You can find somebody from the other side of the country, or someone from another more liberal area, who you can work well with. I think that translation from in-person to online that everyone had to do this year trained us really well to be prepared for the next generation of this community.
But I do want to touch on a little bit just how the industry has improved so much that I've gotten to see through so many different aspects myself.
So I've been in gaming since 2006, so a little bit over fourteen years now, and somewhere around 11 or 12 of those years was pre-transition, and that was fine, it was just kind of by the books, whatever. Nobody really thought of me differently because I just didn't really express my gender identity like that. And so I kind of got to see this shift from behind the curtain in an interesting way. But back then, before coming out, I had a girlfriend who was trans and I got to watch her come out to the gaming scene, and I got to see that happen like four, five years ago or so, and then compare it to how I came out to the scene two to three years ago. And that was already like such a different experience. Seeing just how the numbers of supportive people are so big out there that... yes there are people that put me down, there will always be able to put you down, but nowadays people aren't as afraid to fight for their friends and to show up for people.
There are also now more websites like your website [thegamehers.com] and different YouTube channels out there. There are all sorts of different subcommunities all over the entire globe that are here to help support you. And I think it's that voice of support that really empowers us much more.
Today we are more empowered than we ever have been in the past to make these changes in expressing our identities within the gaming world, and to feel safe and comfortable with others. Hopefully in the future, I just hope that the previously underpowered voice can continue to get stronger and stronger to the point where there really aren't any more haters. And it feels like there always will be. But I think the difference is that, like, these are your typical schoolyard bullies who think it’s cool to pick on women and LGBT people and everything like that. Hopefully as we move forward, the voice gets strong enough in the overall conversation that picking on these people is no longer the cool thing to do.
I think sometimes you'll see people online snap back at hateful people with a little bit of a tone. And people respond with, “woah, don't get like too angry or anything, don't respond with anger.” But honestly, sometimes people are just fed up with it. And I'm kind of glad that people have more confidence behind what they can say now. Sometimes that kind of angry energy is needed because we need to show that bullying us is not the cool thing to do anymore. You're fucking lame if you do it.
So speak up for yourself, find the people around the entire world of Internet who support you, and put your best foot forward.
And now that so many companies have grown within the scene themselves, they understand that these struggles allow things to get better and better each year. Many jobs will support you. So put forth your best talents, find your home with your friends, find your home with your employer (even if that ends up being yourself), do your best, and don't let anybody stop you.
As consumers of games and as fans of games, what do you think we can do to make the world a better place for everybody who is on the internet and in the gaming industry?
That is a really good question. I think a very important aspect is showcasing diversity in games and having different icons, whether they be real-life personalities or characters in video games to represent different marginalized groups, and not really calling attention to it.
I think, especially watching sitcoms, anybody can agree that there's the right way and the wrong way to do the gay character, for instance, whether it's like the part of a joke versus just they're just there, who cares? In real life, you meet so many different LGBT people without even realizing it. But when people from those underrepresented groups watch these shows, and see these characters and can relate to them, they can have an experience where they just know “hey, it's pretty awesome that somebody took the time out of their way to write a backstory that I can relate to.”
I think the same goes for video games as well. And there are so many video games out there with full lore and everything and story behind these characters and designs that show it's not just somebody controlling just an avatar, but it's also just a character like they're out of a book, whether it be the back story of a character from a fighting game, or different kinds of like decals shown in a shooter, there’s really no limit to where LGBT characters can be added to games. And as people see that LGBT people and women are just like anybody else, that we also enjoy shooters, and we also enjoy fighting games.
I think representation within the games themselves is by far the best way to kind of get us involved because people will become used to that normalcy, and next time they meet an LGBT person instead of going, “oh, I should make fun of them,” they'll be like, “no, I've already seen 40 of them in my favorite video game series. No prob.”
That makes sense. Something that we covered a bit in the Let's Play podcast was the idea of like empathy and how it's inherent when you're playing a role-playing game. When you have more characters in which you are stepping into somebody else's shoes that's like a huge empathy builder. It’s super cool that gaming has this unique ability to really put you in somebody else's shoes.
Definitely.
Is there anything else you’d like to share? About the esports industry specifically perhaps?
Sure, yeah. So previously I did talk about my work with Hungrybox and his team, Team Liquid, but I think it was also pretty cool and inspiring looking back at my previous workplaces since I have had a very large diversity of different roles, whether it be computer tech support, marketing, working in tech industries versus in entertainment industries.
In past jobs, especially with inclusivity and feeling safe and comfortable and also coming out, I'm no stranger to abuse. I've been fired from jobs before and looked down upon because of who I was. And there was a time, about maybe two years ago or so, I forget the exact date, where I was fired from a job very soon after coming out. After coming out there I was abused and belittled, to the point of locking myself in the bathroom crying numerous times during the workday.
But honestly, because of my skill set and confidence and getting to work with others, it was a painful experience, but I was able to escape it fine because I was able to create my own jobs and rely on the other people in the industry who helped provide me with opportunities, whether it was a YouTube channel to work on, or opportunities within YouTube and esports spaces to create my own company with the work I do. I learned from this that I would much rather be a trailblazer and do my own things and not have to work for a hateful business place. I think that was a very eye-opening experience.
As I worked on my own business and working on these YouTube channels, I was able to build up these skills as almost like a portfolio of what I can do for other companies. And that has also led me to working at a full-time job with another esports organization called Panda (previously known as Panda Global). They are actually a group mostly from the one-versus-one esports sphere, whether it be fighting games or card games, and I've known them ever since their inception, probably five+ years ago or so. Now I'm able to work with them and bring my talents to them, and now I have a normal workplace. I actually relocated halfway across the country from Philadelphia to Detroit because I was able to bring my talents there.
So not only was I able to improve my own talents, my own portfolio, and build myself as a person, but I found that once I had that skill set, there were companies out there that would be looking for me regardless of my personal background. Like, sure, any guy could have filled my position, any cis-straight person could have filled my position, anybody of any nationality or background could have filled my position. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. It’s what skills you offer in a position that people will value. In today's day and age, a lot of the bigotry and hate is thankfully subsiding, at least with companies that have proper mission statements and inclusivity rights, and now I work for a team where I can just put my best foot forward, even for myself as well.
The message that I'm taking from what you're saying is be so good that they can't say no.
Exactly.
Do you have any additional advice for young people who might want to follow a similar path to what you've done?
I think that really encapsulates it super well.
But I think what's really cool, seeing my work with Hungrybox or Panda apart from other companies, is that we are all grown from within grassroots esports. So everybody that was behind these companies started off as just a competitive game player as well. I think that as we move forward in society and we're showing that it's not cool to pick on women or to pick on LGBT individuals or to pick on any kind of marginalized group, in a weird way, we set the standard that all companies kind of have to be inclusive. When dealing with any company that wants to be taken seriously in this industry, you almost have a weird sort of protection in that as a marginalized person.
So say you grew up in Pennsylvania, like around the area I did, where you're an At-Will Work State, where they can fire you for anything. Literally, they can just not like your hair one day and they can fire you, or they may not like you if you transition kind of thing, which happened in my case. There’s no legal recourse based on the current rules.
But instead, if you work for a company that is so focused in esports where social media is so huge and it's such a big part of your company’s image, they kind of have to play by the appropriate rules, which thankfully I feel like we're able to set as a community. These companies can't risk firing somebody from a marginalized group without good reasoning or just cause.
If some old white guy in government for Pennsylvania wants to fire you, who cares? He's going to go back to his family and kids with his millions of dollars and he's going to be fine. But if you're out here working your ass off in esports in a community where all the organizations want to be seen as doing our best work as our best selves on social media, we're always on our best behavior.
Even if people have to fake it -- like let's say an employer is just a prejudiced person -- regardless, if they're aiming to get anywhere out here in front of the public eye, they have to abide by us and our social rules of acceptance. And that power of social influence is just going to keep becoming more and more normal and we're going to be part of everybody else… just as we should be.
That’s so profound -- esports and gaming companies and organizations are really founded from a place where they're driven by social trends and by social responsibility. And so as the wave of the consumer base are holding them to high standards they have to abide by those standards, even from a selfish commercial point of view. The social norms of what people want and what people feel are so integral to how they consume their media.
Yeah, there's definitely a reason why so many large companies like Verizon and Comcast have to have entire support departments now on Twitter because now social media is thankfully driving how so many people see and consume these issues. If somebody is being discriminated against for who they are as a person, in the past it could have been swept under the rug. Now these companies can't do that anymore. And companies that are fostered in this social media influence and grew out of this, it's intrinsically tied to them from the beginning that they are run by good people, that they have this inclusivity, that it's completely normal to them that people like me can feel safe with them. And when people like me feel safe, they put forth their best effort and create the best product possible.
Connect with Christina!
She would love to hear from and support readers for whom this interview resonates, and connect with other companies who share her values.
Reach out and follow Christina on Twitter: @CLASH_Chia
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